The following transcript has been edited for length and readability. Listen to the entire discussion here on The Broadband Bunch. The Broadband Bunch is sponsored by ETI Software and VETRO FiberMap.
Joe Coldebella:
This episode of the Broadband Bunch is sponsored by ETI Software and VETRO FiberMap.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Broadband Bunch. I’m your host, Joe Coldebella. Billions and billions of dollars are being spent to build broadband networks and bring high-speed connectivity to millions of folks. Networks are being built, but then something, or someone needs to manage those networks and the all-important subscriber experience. Joining me is the CTO of Ciellos, Daryn Terlesky. Daryn, welcome to the Broadband Bunch.
Daryn Terlesky:
Thank you very much, Joe.
Joe Coldebella:
Hey, I am really looking forward to unpacking the Ciellos story and your role in that capacity. But before we dig into that, I would love it if you could share with our audience just a little bit about yourself. I always find it interesting how folks find their way into their role. If you could just give us the dime store tour, that would be awesome.
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, sure. I am happy to share. I’m Daryn Terlesky. I’m the Chief Technical and Innovation Officer at Ciellos. What that means is I’ve spent my career focusing on Microsoft technologies, and how they are applicable to systems deployment in the enterprise resource planning space. And I’ve spent about 30 years with Microsoft and about 25 years with ERP in general. I also focus on how technology influences businesses and how businesses can make better investments by leveraging technology. That’s a bit of my background.
Joe Coldebella:
That’s great. For the listeners, what is ERP?
Daryn Terlesky:
Enterprise Resource Planning. It’s finance, logistics, inventory system, human resources, and all of the systems that run corporations.
Joe Coldebella:
That’s what I love about the industry. We use these acronyms to control a mouthful of things, for sure. You’re the CTO and innovation officer at Ciellos. What exactly is Ciellos?
Daryn Terlesky:
We founded Ciellos as a partner, for partners, in the Microsoft BizApps or Dynamics ecosphere. Our goal is to support the partner community in their investments and provide a high-quality and a senior depth of competency to our partners and augment their investments, support their customer base, and accelerate their go-to-market strategy.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. Before we dive into that aspect of it, I was wondering if we could pump the brakes a little bit, take a step back, and talk about the Microsoft platform itself. Is the idea for small to mid-size operators to, instead of building from scratch, which might be really daunting, it’s like a cheat code that the Microsoft platform allows these folks a little bit of an advantage?
Daryn Terlesky:
If you rewind 20 years, the major focus was on investing in a system. And then, the major expense that most corporations would incur is how those systems would integrate with each other. Some would integrate nicely, some wouldn’t. And then, you’ve got foundation-based systems below that. When we fast forward to today, what we look at is a platform decision and a collection of systems that are already pre-built to work together. In our world, it’s the Microsoft platform. What we like to call it, is that you get a set of building blocks, and you get to leverage the building blocks that make sense for your business today. But you get to also leverage and prepare, plan, and count on those extra building blocks being there, already, for you as your business grows. It’s a great platform to grow upon.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. Is the idea that they’re like industry standards? In the broadband space, sometimes, they’re medium to small-size operators. And in the past, it was one of those things where Duane was in charge, and Duane retired. Or Austin was in charge, and Austin left the company. And the idea is that they leave with the keys to the castle, but with something built on a Microsoft platform the idea is that it’s a lot easier for folks to get up to speed.
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, definitely. Because Microsoft is a very common-based, high-investment platform, globally, there are so many resources that know the basics of how all these systems are working, or the foundation processes with them. It helps with resource acquisition and resource changes in an organization. But it also means that your investment footprint, or integrating, or how the data works, or the latest trend with AI, all these systems have been spelled out to work together already. So you don’t have siloed knowledge holders or “Keys to the castle” type experiences anymore.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay, that’s great. The idea is that you’ve got a lot more to pull from as well. It’s one of those things where if someone were to start from scratch, it would be a lot harder. And this is almost like a boost-up. So it’s a lot easier for these folks to get up and running faster.
Daryn Terlesky:
Yeah, exactly. I’d say it’s astronomically harder to start from scratch. But when you leverage platforms, most of the investment run is already prepared for you. You then spend your time aligning the resources that you have today, to then get the processes that you need established to then plan for tomorrow. The Microsoft platform allows for all of that. And it also helps spread the load balance better. A company of Microsoft’s size has spent the investment to analyze where those workloads should live and where they’re not competing with each other, causing a negative user experience.
As a company grows, and adds more volume and scale, then the platform itself is already been tuned to scale with that growth. It alleviates risk, and it allows for a company to go to market and accelerate to their business plan without being impeded by the systems, when it’s done correctly, of course.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. That’s great. It sounds a little bit like a double-edged sword though, which is actually good for you in the sense that they do all these great things. But I would assume that the system is also massive and that it can be overwhelming. And sometimes, they’re going to need somebody. You guys are a Microsoft coach. And is that the idea, is that you guys help folks use the platform to guide them through, so they don’t make the wrong turn at Albuquerque?
Daryn Terlesky:
Exactly. Yeah. And the term, “Coach,” it’s a term that we use and adopted from Microsoft as one of our key roles working within this partner community. So we can provide the right level of advice to make better investments. We can provide guidance based on our experiences working with these platforms. But also, we have the scale factor, which means we can bring a lot of resources to the table that are already trained in this domain, to build faster more successfully with confidence.
Joe Coldebella:
Awesome. Our sponsor is ETI Software, and I know that you guys have partnered with them to help operators give their subscribers the best experience. Can you unpack the things that you do with them to make it an easier task when these folks roll out these complex networks?
Daryn Terlesky:
Yeah, certainly. When we look at our investment platform or portfolio of skill sets, we’re continually focusing on the product changes and the next wave of release and gaining experience with those technology platforms or systems before they’re used by the community. And we work diligently with Microsoft to prepare for change and for those use cases.
Then, when we work with a partner like ETI, we look at their go-to-market strategy and their systems investments. And then, we’re lining those skilled resources, not only from a skill perspective, but the best practice process of how you build with these tools and how you prepare and plan and build integration or build platform scenarios that fit the user community target, that a company like ETI is going after, like the broadband community.
Joe Coldebella:
So, the idea is that you allow folks, like ETI, as they enter the platform, to get their sea legs. And then, from there, it allows you to work with them? As an example, I know that they start with an off-the-shelf solution. Is that how it starts? I would love it if you could explain that. Things are tailored towards the people, but it’s good to start with a simple beginner set, so to speak.
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, yeah. That’s a best practice for systems adoption in today’s world. And when we talk about building a product, we talk about a minimal viable product, or a footprint of processes that the customer will be attracted to, that they can rely on. It’s enough, but it’s just not too much to overwhelm their first year of operating. Then, when we look at a customer implementation strategy, which is different from a product build strategy, on the customer side, we do the exact same thing, we look at what is their first-year budget spend and appetite for change.
Because when you roll out new systems, you can only take so much change before it starts impeding the day-to-day business cases that we need to operate to support the business. We look at that minimal footprint that’s going to be viably able to be achieved within, I like to say, a one-year timeframe. When we launched with ETI, that was one of our starting points, is what does the community need? What can we build? When do they need it? What is their rate of adoption? And we start putting a plan together.
Joe Coldebella:
When ETI and you work with someone new, is it one of those things where their eyes are bigger than their stomachs? And they want to do way too much. Then you’ve got to pull the reins and say, “Hey, listen, guys, we want you to switch over really quick, but we’ve done this before. We’re experienced. And we know that if you take too much to begin with, then it gets overwhelming. And it’s bad news.” Is that something that you guys run into?
Daryn Terlesky:
Yeah, exactly. I like to think of how much you actually want to achieve. I love to think of that, in product terms, as a roadmap. We want to discuss what the roadmap is and what a five-year plan looks like when we look at a customer or when we look at a product investment. Then we can say, “We know where the journey’s going to go.” But then we start talking about resource and cost dependencies and what’s actually achievable.
That’s where you take that larger roadmap or the vision of what you want to invest in and break it down into more consumable bites that you can then achieve and achieve successfully without continuous delays or more impacts or unknown situations impacting your timeline. Break it down to something achievable. Like I said, one-year plans then get broken down to three-month turn rates. I love the Scrum principle for planning. You break your three months down into two-week cycles or sprints. Break your cycle down into sprints. But it all starts with that. What is the vision? And the vision is the big picture. And we want to understand the big picture before we put any dollar in front of anything.
Joe Coldebella:
That’s great. It’s the old joke, how do you eat an 800-pound elephant? One bite at a time.
Daryn Terlesky:
One bite at a time. You got it.
Joe Coldebella:
We touched on a little bit on data as a key component. Data is the new oil. Why is data, now, such a linchpin? Is it the fact that we’ve got the technology? Is it the fact that, now, we have more data than ever before, and now we can crunch it? What’s the reason why the data is front and center?
Daryn Terlesky:
I like to think about systems and technology from a behavioral perspective. We build systems to improve humanity. And the whole point of a system is to improve the human-to-computer response, to make humanity more efficient in certain things. The whole concept of data is to be able to support decisions. And if you’re able to better organize and surface your data, it then allows a business, or the human side of the business, to identify with those data patterns, to support those decisions. And we move away from intuitive or gut-based decision-making or reactions to situations.
The better we can surface the data, the better we can organize that data, and the better tools that we can produce that can work on our behalf and make us smarter. And then, it makes the businesses operate better. That affects not only the cash base of a business and the trajectory of a business, but it affects all the people working within the business, creating better experiences for us. And that is where we are right now, with all these new tools coming out with AI, which is exactly for that purpose. How do we organize and surface data better? And now, we get to say, “How can we tune a system to surface it more productively or more to what we’re looking for?” Making better decisions.
Joe Coldebella:
Awesome. Making better decisions and tuning into the system. In terms of using the Microsoft platform, one of the great things is that you have access to AI, augmented reality, and the business intelligence toolset, if I’m correct there. Why are these so important for operators in terms of just moving forward?
Daryn Terlesky:
If you focus only on your processes, you’re in the day-to-day of your business. And it’s hard to extrapolate that and get a high-level or a ceiling view of what’s really happening. And when we look at AI, what it’s going to be able to achieve, is to surface that data. Let me pause there and say that the challenge is that the organization of that data takes time and effort to then move it or manipulate it into a form that’s consumable by the reader or the target audience. And if we rewind 10 to 20 years, we’ve been working on these business cases that organize data better. But the ability to surface it into BI tools has always been a very heavy project. And extra systems have to be put in to surface that data better to that audience.
With the Microsoft platform and the changes that we’re experiencing this year, those tools have gotten better and better to the point where they’re accelerating our ability to organize that data towards the audience, which means, we no longer are waiting for a month for a report. We’re waiting days, hours, or minutes to get the next intelligent data point of our business. And then, when that’s all tuned correctly, you can, basically say, leadership, when you need a data point, it’s there when you need it, not one month, and all this extra effort, and people and resources that have to go gather it to prepare it for leadership to make decisions.
It cuts the time down dramatically. And when we look at Microsoft and their investments, that’s the layer that they’re going to put across all of their systems to be able to surface that data at that much faster pace and rate in a more organized state for all of the processes and all the different systems and data points that are in play in an organization. That is their business premise today.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. Are you just amazed at how much progress has been made in the last few years, especially in the last year, in terms of just how things have accelerated? It must be super exciting for you.
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, it’s incredible. It’s absolutely incredible to be at the forefront of all of this change. Not only is it about leveraging AI for a purpose, it’s looking at how all of these systems, collectively, have been growing over all these years. But the pace of change is what’s accelerated. We’re even looking at systems change and adoption rates. They used to be on 10 or 12-year cycles, I would say. We’re looking at one-year turn cycles with technology.
Joe Coldebella:
Amazing.
Daryn Terlesky:
We were walking, but we’re running now. And next year, we’re going to be flying. That’s the pace we’re working at.
Joe Coldebella:
You hear the phrase “Moore’s law” in terms of technology, is Moore’s law on steroids now?
Daryn Terlesky:
Yeah. In the simplest terms, yeah.
Joe Coldebella:
That’s crazy. Isn’t AI just the tip of the spear in terms of augmented reality and virtual reality?
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, yeah.
Joe Coldebella:
Right now, we don’t know what we don’t know. It’s just amazing how many different innovations are made. This is similar, in some ways, to the original “.com” in the late nineties, in the sense that there was a frenetic pace of innovation. Back then, it was, very much, horse and buggy. But it seems like, right now, it’s very much Ferrari, in terms of just how things are moving. And it’s incredible.
Daryn Terlesky:
It absolutely is incredible. And if you use the Ferrari scenario, the tools are there. And they operate like a Ferrari. But guess what? Not very many people are trained in how to drive a Ferrari. And that’s where we’re at right now, with all of these toolsets. We used to say that the computing power available was not sufficient for the software that was being produced, so the computer had to catch up.
What we’ve just experienced this last year is computing power and the ability to surface data and do natural language processing. All of these components have now advanced past what we commonly refer to as the human condition. Right now, it’s the human side of the equation that has to focus on catching up and changing their behaviors to then better work with all of these AI tools coming out. AKA, you got to learn to drive the Ferrari. And everybody gets a seat in that.
Joe Coldebella:
That is incredible. It’s also one of the things that the broadband industry has right now is a little bit of a lag in workforce challenges. Is that going to be the case with this technology, the AI technology, moving forward? Or will folks start to feel comfortable in the driving seat if we just give them time to get adjusted?
Daryn Terlesky:
I think that’s part of what has to catch up now. I call them smarter tools because these tools are to help make us smarter and more efficient. But as companies invest in them, they can then make better use of their people investments. People can then take on more responsibility or take on more initiatives in an organization and not be bogged down by inefficiencies and systems dependencies that may not be ready yet. It allows an organization to move at a faster pace and be smarter but with less stress on their workforce.
One of the things I want to say as well is that it’s so exciting to be able to influence the broadband and telecom space, which is accelerating at such a fast pace. And when we look at AI, and we look at the need for broadband across the globe, those are two things that have to work in parallel now. It’s very exciting to be able to work on this equation.
Joe Coldebella:
It sounds amazing. As a cautionary tale, I would love to get your thoughts. Some organizations are saying, “Hey, listen, this is an important seminal moment.” But then some folks have these legacy systems. Is that scary for them to stand on the sidelines and not dive into this? Because the train’s going to move. The next train might not come for a while, and you’re going to get left in the dust.
Daryn Terlesky:
Yeah. There is that fear, but there’s not a reality to that fear. You get on the train when the train stops and when you’re ready to board the train. The systems are always going to be there, and you can accelerate your use cases when you’re ready. But what I would like to say is that certain businesses that take on these initiatives early will outpace other businesses because it will generate more acceleration and smarter decision-making. It’s to everybody’s advantage to investigate and figure out how to take these tools on earlier because of the natural acceleration that happens. But what we also have is a natural fear of change. That’s a human condition. We’ve evolved as humanity because of our fear of change.
It’s the same thing with the way we operate business systems and processes. There’s a risk when you change things too fast. It’s something that we’ll have to always check and balance with each organization and really look at the behavior of organizations and how they adopt these tools, so they don’t take on too much risk too fast. And not everybody needs to be a racehorse. There’s enough room for everybody to build and construct what they feel is their part or their domain or how they’re applying resources towards their goals at the pace that they want to. And that’s a really key statement that businesses couldn’t do before. They will be able to pace themselves naturally, more so, with these toolsets.
Joe Coldebella:
That’s great. In the hundreds of interviews that we’ve done when you ask them, “If you could go back in time and whisper something in your ear, what would it be?” And more times than not, it’s like, “Ah, I wish I would’ve started earlier.” I think you’re right. I think what you need to do, if you’re thinking about moving forward, you got to map it out. You have to think about it. You have to understand that it’s going to be a rough road. But at the end of the day, when you get to the other side, you’re going to be so much happier that you did.
Daryn Terlesky:
And when you’re ready to change, get some help. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. That’s a key thing.
Joe Coldebella:
It really is. In the broadband community, everyone is trying to bring connectivity to folks, but there are different solutions all over the place. And what ends up happening is that somebody in Georgia looks at somebody in Wyoming and says, “Wow, that’s how we should do it.” There’s competition, but there’s also a lot of collaboration.
Daryn Terlesky:
Absolutely. And that speaks to how we, as a company, as Ciellos, wanted to use our resources to help the community. We are that go-to, to get help and acceleration, to reduce risk, or to, simply, support change in a more structured fashion.
Joe Coldebella:
Love it. Yeah. It’s so important. You’re listening to the Broadband Bunch podcast. A quick shout-out to our sponsors, ETI Software Solutions and VETRO FiberMap. We would not be able to bring this awesome content without you. We are joined by Daryn Terlesky, CTO of Ciellos. Daryn, I’m going to give you the power to look into the future. Where do you see things in 24 to 36 months? What are some of the things that you’re excited about?
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, everything about Copilot right now is incredible.
Joe Coldebella:
Could you unpack that?
Daryn Terlesky:
Sure. When we look at, even, the relationship that we have with ETI and the focus on the rural telecom and the broadband space, it’s systems that are supporting people, change, and growth. But when people interact with those systems, they don’t naturally have a way of asking questions through those systems. They have to go to support resources, or you have to go to the web and start searching.
And the one thing with ChatGPT is that every time you use an open source and ask that questions, it’s absorbing what you’re communicating, which can be a corporate risk. The coolest thing that I’m seeing is, within all of this Microsoft platform, with every system of focus, you’re going to have a gateway that creates a secure point of contact to ChatGPT, to ask questions and get feedback, using natural language, which will help accelerate you and help raise more knowledge.
But also, you have a company support mechanism there, that can help tune those messages and help observe and allow management to help their staff get smarter and get more prescriptive and unified with their messaging, right within the system. Imagine the SMP software that ETI is producing, with a natural language processor screen, right embedded into all of the feature functionality that they’re operating daily. It’s like having somebody to talk to.
Joe Coldebella:
I’m always shocked or blown away when I interact with ChatGPT or any of these platforms, be it Bard, or what have you, at how responsive they are.
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, that’s incredible.
Joe Coldebella:
I don’t know about you, but sometimes, I’ll ask it a question. And then I feel like I’m chatting with someone, and I feel like I’ve got to thank them. If I write a paragraph, and I say, “Make it shorter.” And then it makes it shorter. I say, “Can you make it a little bit shorter?” And it does. It’s amazing, just in terms of the time-saving. Plus, it’s almost like you’ve got someone looking over your shoulder to make sure that you’re crossing your I’s and donning your T’s.
Daryn Terlesky:
Yeah. And then, you’ll have a moment where you’re actually feeling that you want to appreciate it. I don’t know if anybody’s ever had that experience. Alexa’s probably the biggest one out there. Every now and again, I’ll be like, “You know what? I should thank Alexa.”
Joe Coldebella:
Right. Alexa and Siri.
Daryn Terlesky:
And Siri.
Joe Coldebella:
It’s amazing. But there has to be some challenges out there. There’s so much money coming into the space. There are so many moving parts. Is there anything that has your radar going off, like, “Hey guys, you know what? Everything is cool; everything’s exciting. But there are some things that we need to watch out for.”
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, sure. It’s the organization of data. Whenever we are going to invest in change, and build a system or implement software for a company or provide extra tooling, the foundation structure of the data itself should be thought through earlier in the process. And when we roll out an ERP system, which has a finance backbone, the number one topic we’ve always started with is, you need a chart of accounts, but then you need to understand your dimensions so that you can do structured reporting out of the system. That’s been a concept around for 20 to 30 years already.
Dimensions, your KPIs, think through what you want as an output from the investment. That is the pure definition of AI now. By thinking through what you want out, you can then structure your data points and your data pools earlier in your investment, which cuts down your overall investment over time.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. Maybe this is too much of a rudimentary question, but can there be too much data the system is absorbing? Or the more data; the better.
Daryn Terlesky:
I think that one of the common fears that most CIOs face, is that they hoard their data. Because you may need it some time, and it’s very difficult to value the data. But because of fear, you don’t want to lose that data. Historically, I would say too much data is a problem. However, with the new AI tools coming out and the ability to turn unstructured data or unstructured document pools into a structured approach and tier the use of those layers or deep learning models, you can actually take a structure to a certain point, then ask it to restructure it to another point. The tools are getting smarter and smarter at working with unstructured data points. At this time, I would say more data is better. But if you can structure that data in the beginning, it cuts down your time investments.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. If you can structure, you set out, I guess, the path to a solution, it makes it a lot easier for you, so you aren’t overwhelmed.
Daryn Terlesky:
Exactly. When we talk about ETI and the investments they’ve made, the SMP space, especially the service portfolio products. That’s what those systems are doing. They’re taking a Greenfield or a new implementation of their software, and they’ve got a structured blueprint to work from. That’s a great starting point to allow all of these other tools to then come in and work and operate better from that initial investment.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. Wow. That is great. Even if you’ve got the best engineers and you’ve got everything lined up, it’s always a challenge because it’s hard when it first rolls out.
Daryn Terlesky:
Exactly. It’s change. And naturally, people don’t like change.
Joe Coldebella:
I love it. Hey, if you’ve made it this far, you must like all things broadband. Check us out on LinkedIn, as well as on X, and then at broadbandbunch.com. Daryn, this has been an absolutely phenomenal visit. I can’t thank you enough for sharing the Ciellos story. If folks want to learn more about what you guys do, where can they go for more information?
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, our website’s the best point, ciellos.com. We’ve got all our links and contact information up there. We’ve got our social media streams starting to produce our marketing efforts. Part of our story, we’re trying to get out there. And as we fine-tune our relationships and our partnerships, what we’re seeing is the biggest investment we’re making is, how do we align human behavior to these incredible systems that are coming out that are changing the way companies think and operate. We’re starting to think more about ourselves as a behavior-oriented company. Find our links and come talk to us. We are happy to share.
Joe Coldebella:
Awesome. And I’ll put those in the show notes. Daryn, it’s been an absolutely awesome experience. I learned a ton. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so very, very much.
Daryn Terlesky:
Oh, it’s an absolute pleasure. Thank you as well.
Joe Coldebella:
All right. That’s going to wrap up this episode of The Broadband Bunch. Until next time, we’ll see you guys later.
