The following transcript has been edited for length and readability. Listen to the entire discussion here on The Broadband Bunch. The Broadband Bunch is sponsored by ETI Software and Vetro FiberMap.
Pete Pizzutillo:
This episode of The Broadband Bunch is sponsored by ETI Software and Vetro FiberMap.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Broadband Bunch. My name is Pete Pizzutillo, and I’m joined today by Michaela Goodwin. She’s the CFO at Vetro FiberMap. Michaela, thanks for joining us today.
Michaela Goodwin:
Thanks for having me.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah, I wanted to dig in. You were one of the lucky participants in the Women in Fiber Luncheon today. I know it was a standing-room-only or sold-out crowd, and I would just like to get your reactions to it. Is this the first time you’ve been to the lunch?
Michaela Goodwin:
It was the first time I had been. Yeah, so I was very surprised at the number of women and that we filled up the entire ballroom. It was a lot.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah. So there’s a lot of people there and for us men, what’s going on back there?
Michaela Goodwin:
Oh, lots of dirty little secrets, planning, and plotting.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah.
Michaela Goodwin:
No, it was great. It was really kind of a celebration of the growing number of women in the field, I think. And also women come together and use each other to network and acknowledge each other that we all exist in all of our different roles. We had people in manufacturing roles, marketing roles, people who cover the events, journalists, and people who run marketing organizations and conferences. And so it was across the board, and we had a speaker come in. And she really just focused on diversity and inclusion and what can we all do about that in our own organizations because basically, the change starts with us.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Well, that’s a good point. So personally, you’ve had a journey for a couple of years now. So that’s just kind of for the listener, what’s been your background as a woman coming through the technology space?
Michaela Goodwin:
Yeah, yeah, so I started off in accounting and finance and kind of in the investing world through private equity, which is very male-dominated. Then, I moved on to working with technology companies, which again, from a management perspective is heavily male-dominated and also just technology in general. Software engineers are often male, so I’m used to working in those environments and being the only female in the room. I don’t even notice it anymore.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Right. Right. So what was the big takeaway? What’s the next obstacle that they can tackle or focus on? Is there anything that stands out from the discussions?
Michaela Goodwin:
Yeah. The speaker talked about whether diversity and inclusion are problems or a solution. She then dove into how diverse and inclusive businesses actually profit at a higher rate than others that don’t have diversity and inclusion as a principal. And so she was, I think, making the point that this is not just about the feel-good of being inclusive. It’s actually a good business practice. And so how do you align with your investors and others to get behind that and see that this is an initiative that benefits everybody? So the hard part is how do you kind of bring that back and action it?
And so we were talking about that at the table. How in all of our different worlds because we all work in different aspects of fiber. How do you start to make those kinds of changes? And so even when you’re starting to think about hiring practices or how to bring those principles into how you show up to work every day, it’s still hard. But I definitely left feeling like she charged us with, it starts with you. It starts with each of us. So bring this back and think about changes that you can make in your environment. Whether you’re a small company or a global large company, just start small. Start with yourself, and try to make some changes that way.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah. But it’s got to be hard. So you work for a relatively small company, and there are some companies that have just full-time staff focused on this and resources that others don’t. Most of our listeners don’t have that, and they have constrained resource pull and geographical limitations. So what do you think are some things that you would suggest that start training your brain differently to be thinking about?
Michaela Goodwin:
Yeah, because it is retraining your brain. So even for me, I am out looking when we’re hiring, and I have a mind toward how we diversify our workforce. And I’m having a problem finding candidates. It’s already a tight labor market, like you said. So how do I find candidates who bring that diversity in when it’s already a tight labor market, and they’re not surfacing? So I think it does come down to workforce development. And so at Vetro, we actually have that as an initiative where we are looking at different non-traditional ways of bringing people into the workforce that we wouldn’t normally find. So whether we have either little internships or sponsoring somebody who didn’t come through their traditional schooling.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Educational channels. Yeah.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yes. And giving them a chance and educating them through the workforce and just trying to find different resourceful, non-traditional ways of expanding the scope of the population.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah. I don’t know enough about the other industries to know if they’re having the same challenges that we have. One of the criticisms that I’ve had about telecom is that we’re just doing a poor job of educating young people about the opportunity at hand regardless of race or sex. So I think that’s leading to this constrained resource. I mean, there’s higher demand, but also just the labor pool isn’t great. There are a lot of people going to drive Amazon trucks because they’re making 17 bucks an hour; they’re working on their own; and that type of thing. So we could be better advocates as broadband professionals in the industry to say, “Here’s the opportunity at hand. It’s a career path. It’s not just a job.”
Michaela Goodwin:
That’s right.
Pete Pizzutillo:
I know the Fiber Broadband Association has launched workforce development initiatives. I know different institutions have done the same trying to soak in there, but I mean we’re probably years away before any of that bears fruit.
Michaela Goodwin:
That’s right. It’s so true, and I think it’s a great place to start. We have mentoring programs, and there are a lot of different ways you can get involved through the Women Viber and the FBA in general. But like you said, it’s just going to take a long time for that to actually hit the workforce. So we need to get more people, more women. For example, if we’re going to talk about women, we need to get them in the doors so that they can become more skilled and then grow through the ranks and be in a position where they can hire others.
But we need to be able to get them in the doors. There are a lot of training programs for people. And I think what’s happening right now with all the funding coming into the market and this kind of revolution that we’re experiencing is going to change the job landscape. There are going to be new careers that are available, and we need to be training people for them. And so I just heard it at the state broadband session earlier. They’re like, we need that now though.
Pete Pizzutillo:
I know.
Michaela Goodwin:
We need the people now. We can’t wait. So it is actually creating an opportunity for companies who are jumping on that bandwagon saying, “We’ll do the training. We’ve got a super-focused curriculum. Just tap us, and we’re in.”
Pete Pizzutillo:
It’s so frustrating because on a broader macro level, all this money is flooding in, and the BEAD funding just came in. And there’s a hundred million dollars plus going to every state. And that’s great that the federal government recognized that need. But the infrastructure isn’t in place for us to actually realize that. Right? Many of the states didn’t even have broadband offices or still don’t. So now you just give them a bunch of money, and there’s a bunch of under-informed, well-intended people that are not really sure how to use that money. And then you have the supply chain issues that weren’t ready for it.
And you have the resource issues, and these are the fears that we talk about on The Broadband Bunch. Looking back 10 years, did we squander this opportunity? And it may have just been well-intended, but misaligned if you will, or mis-sequenced, not that anybody can really look through all that stuff. But the federal government and the state governments need to recognize this because I know in some of the BEAD funding there is digital literacy. I mean it is mandated and funded to do that, but there should also be digital workforce development pieces to that. And I’m not sure if that’s in there or not, but I think the private companies are well intended. But as you said, we are kind of picking through scraps and trying to do this independently when there needs to be kind of more of a top-down effort.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yes. And I heard that a bunch today. The state offices are saying, “How can we be resourceful here?” We can’t just build it. We have to have people using it. So in order to have adoption, we actually need education. We need trust. And how do we get there through community organizations that already have those relationships? It’s a one-to-many, right? That’s the quickest way to get there. But still, there’s a gap there even. How do we even identify those community organizations that have those relationships? And even so many joked like we were doing Google searches. But there’s just gaps all the way down the line. And you can’t end up with no missteps.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Right.
Michaela Goodwin:
There’s no way.
Pete Pizzutillo:
It’s impossible.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yeah. So yeah, I think they’re in a tough spot. And it’s also because each state is different. The challenges that each state has is different. So it’s not like you can come up with one playbook, and they can all share it with each other and replicate it because they each have their own challenges they’re working through. So it’s a lot for them to take on.
And then they have the state broadband offices themselves which are new for a lot of states. Now they’ve got digital equity and inclusion folks, different positions that are now funded through some of the public money. And they’re trying to figure out how to work together. How do they partner and reach as many people as they can? And then you’ve got all the ISPs in the mix too, trying to figure this out with data that just keeps changing. It’s a big puzzle.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah, it’s going to be interesting. So I’m going to ask you two questions. One, if you can go back to Michaela 20 years ago and give yourself some advice, what would that be? And then looking ahead and in 24 months, what do you see us evolving towards? So what would you give Michaela, young Michaela, younger Michaela, I should say? What input advice would you give her? And as a mother, maybe it’s the same thing you’re going to tell your daughter, right?
Michaela Goodwin:
Yeah. And it’s probably the same thing that my parents told me, and I didn’t listen.
Pete Pizzutillo:
So why bother.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yes. I already see that in my future with my children. But I think for me, when I hit my forties, I just became more confident in my decision-making. And so I wasn’t as afraid to ask for what I wanted or what I needed. So I think the first time that I did that was I had just been through a startup that was just a killer, just sucked the life out of me. And I thought, you know what?
I just need to take a break. So I’m going to look for a role that’s part-time, but I still wanted to be a CFO. I love my job. So trying to find that balance of working with a company where I can still do the role I love but try to cut it back so it works with my personal life. I think if I was in my twenties, I’m not sure I would’ve asked for that. And at some point, you just say, “Screw it. What do I have to lose?”
And so that becomes empowering the first time that you do that and you take control of and you say, “This is what I need.” And you’re basically saying, “If you want to work with me and you’re going to value me, then this is what I need,” which is scary. But I think that that’s a journey that you have to get through. So for me, I wish I had learned that earlier in my life, and it’s definitely something I would encourage people to just bet on themselves, listen to themselves, and ask for what they want.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Awesome. Is your daughter going to listen to you?
Michaela Goodwin:
No. If her at nine years old is any indication I’m in big trouble.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Right.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yeah.
Pete Pizzutillo:
My 13-year-old thinks she can drive already. So she’s like, “I got it.”
Michaela Goodwin:
Totally. Yes. Which is wonderful. And as much of a pain in the behind as she is to me as a parent, I love how independent she is. And I feel like she’s just going to go rock it and hopefully not have some of the challenges that I had coming through the ranks. She’ll just have that confidence and go ask for what she wants.
Pete Pizzutillo:
I hope. Yeah.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yeah.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Awesome. Thank you for that. So looking ahead, right, so to say two years from now. There are a lot of questions about how we closed this gap and how this money is used. But just from the issue that we’re talking about, do you think we’re making progress? Is it real progress? If not, maybe where some gaps might be. Any thoughts on that?
Michaela Goodwin:
Sure. We’re making progress. Yeah, I think we are. I think there has to be something more systemic though to really change the trajectory. I think we make incremental progress every year. Every 10 years we make incremental progress, but to really change the slope, something more systemic has to change. Whether it’s programs that help with childcare, for example, or as we’re all getting older and dealing with aging parents.
There’s a lot of that burden that falls on women. So you’re running a household. You might be dealing with aging parents. Or you’re raising children, and you’re trying to work full-time. That’s if you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky, you might be a single parent; you don’t have a spouse to even share the burden with; and you’re doing all of those things. So something’s got to give, and I don’t know what the answer is. But until I think we fix some of those more systemic things training programs are definitely a start in the right direction. But I think we’re just going to have to figure out something bigger like that to get that real step change.
Pete Pizzutillo:
So what do you think about remote working or working from home? I mean, do you feel like that’s an enabler? Because that’s often a big conversation in terms of just the global workforce productivity, but I do think it does give some flexibility and some opportunities. So you’re not so tethered geographically, but also chronologically you’re not tethered to the workplace.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yes. I mean, I think when we look back 10 years from now to look at one of the positive impacts of COVID, this was it. It forced us to all figure it out and to be solution-oriented about it. And then it afforded us the ability to actually see that it works, and it is a win-win for both the employer and the employee. I think when you’re trying to manage a household and a full-time job, having the flexibility of where to work so that you can run out and drop a kid off at school and just hop right back into work. That is worth gold.
Pete Pizzutillo:
It’s a game changer.
Michaela Goodwin:
It is.
Pete Pizzutillo:
And it’s funny because those business models needed to be challenged by this compelling macro event. I’ve been working from home since 2011, and I get a lot of pushback because of productivity and stuff. But it was really what’s the next thing that’s going to make us break the mold or think outside the box and kind of try it out? Because looking prior to COVID, you would just think it would still kind of perpetuate, but now it’s a whole new world.
Michaela Goodwin:
It is. And I think this doesn’t just benefit women, right? And I think it’s been huge for families and especially for dads. If they were either the sole breadwinner or they worked out in the office and maybe the mom was home, they lost out on a lot of time with their kids. And so now it allows a little bit more sharing of responsibilities and roles. And I had so many conversations with families in general where they’ve said that the roles have shifted, and it’s been wonderful for everybody, including the kids. So I think it’s going to be hard to go back to forcing everyone to be in the office. But I do have concerns about the younger generation because when I think about how I learned in my twenties, it was being in the office.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Oh, you mean professionally?
Michaela Goodwin:
Professionally.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah. I see.
Michaela Goodwin:
Thank you. Yeah, I switched on you. Yes, professionally.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Right.
Michaela Goodwin:
Right. Because so much of what you learned was just what you heard in the hallway, getting pulled into a partner’s office and hearing them on a call. Right? And when you’re remote, it feels like you have to be so much more intentional with meetings. If you schedule a meeting with somebody, it needs to be for a purpose. Whereas I think so much of the learning that we had professionally was informal, and unplanned, and you just picked things up. This is how I deal with this certain situation because I overheard this exchange. And you don’t get the benefit of that. So I do, when I think about kind of growing our company and figuring out how you support, the training and development of your staff is hugely on my mind. And I don’t have a good solution for that.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Yeah. That might be a generational thing for us. I would love to get a youngster on here and have that conversation. I had a really interesting conversation on the plane with a younger kid, that whole perspective. But I agree. And also as a single father, being able to be more present is great. And it was inconvenient, but you’re dealing now. So yeah, it’s going to be interesting and maybe that is a systemic change. So now there’s patterning that’s happening with our children in that these young families that are coming up that weren’t there before.
Michaela Goodwin:
That’s right.
Pete Pizzutillo:
The dad would go away, and have a couple of martinis. We saw that on Mad Men.
Michaela Goodwin:
Totally. Right. Right. Exactly. No, you’re right. So maybe that’s the first layer of systemic change that we can build from. Yeah.
Pete Pizzutillo:
Okay. Well, thank you for joining us. Hopefully next year there’ll be 600 people in there, or 600 women I should say. And I think you should be on stage since you have such insight into it. So I’ll put that into the suggestion box.
Michaela Goodwin:
Yes. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me. It’s been great.
Pete Pizzutillo:
That’ll wrap up another episode of The Broadband Bunch live from Fiber Connect 2023. Thank you for joining us. You can hear more at broadbandbunch.com. Thanks.
