The following transcript has been edited for length and readability. Listen to the entire discussion here on The Broadband Bunch. The Broadband Bunch is sponsored by ETI Software.
In this episode of the Broadband Bunch, we chat with Nigel Hall, CEO of the Cambridge Broadband Networks Group. When it comes to ending the digital divide, regardless of your location, the objective is always the same: finding the right solution that best fits the situation. As Nigel points out, whether it’s fibre, fixed wireless, or a blended solution, the important thing is to get it right for the community being served. Choosing the right solution is as important as delivering broadband to the under- and unserved. Discussion points include:
Craig:
Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Broadband Bunch alongside my colleague, Lance Stevens, I’m Craig Corbin. Thanks so much for joining us. There has long been a tremendous need for broadband access in order to facilitate communications, commerce, access to medicine, education, and even the delivery of entertainment. And if there was any question as to the status of broadband as the fourth utility, essential and no longer a luxury, demands for connectivity exacerbated by a global pandemic, left absolutely no doubt. It’s time to get busy connecting the unconnected. Our guests today will help us explore how fixed wireless networks are playing a vital role in meeting the challenge of broadband for all. A man who has spent more than two decades spanning the globe for some of the largest telecommunications providers in the world, with a track record of delivering transformational change for companies in multiple industries. It is a pleasure to introduce the chief executive officer of Cambridge Broadband Networks Group, Nigel Hall. Nigel, welcome to the broadband bunch.
Nigel:
Hey, thanks, Craig. Great to be part of it and look forward to having our chat.
Craig:
It is going to be so wonderful to be able to explore today’s topic with you and Lance, and it is always good when we launch into the topic of conversation, but before we do so, for those who might not be familiar with you and your background, I know that it would be very helpful if you could provide that 30,000-foot overview for us.
Nigel:
Thanks, Craig, and hi, Lance. So the background is I’m an engineer in electronics. I worked for a company called Makoni when I first started out as an apprentice at the age of 16. So really not that long ago, actually, I then moved into a company called the GC Group and was responsible for some of their biggest large-scale infrastructure projects in the telecommunication space and communication space globally. And I was fortunate enough to be working on projects like the little tunnel that was built between the UK and the European continent called the channel tunnel.
Nigel:
I was also partly responsible for building out a number of different other communications projects, including the new airport out in Hong Kong.
Nigel:
I then landed in a company called Orange, and I was part of the startup team there and worked in that business for 10 of my 14 years being responsible for launching the international units over that time. And then when I left there, I went to work for companies like Telefonica for cable and wireless worldwide, and also stint in Africa, working for a telecommunications operator down there and more recently got involved in the F1 company, McLaren and also did a stint in the music industry too. So I’ve now got the telecoms media and tech bit of TMT.
Craig:
Nigel, it’s, it’s a shame that you haven’t done anything with your time over the last couple of decades. That is amazing. I am curious though, about your current work as CEO of Cambridge Broadband Networks Group. Tell us about that organization.
Nigel:
So for those of you who don’t know about Cambridge Broadband Networks Group, it’s a company that’s based in the UK, out of the Cambridge science park. We have about a hundred or so customers globally. And we specialize in providing point to multi-point solutions to the licensed millimeter wave space for telcos and mobile network operators globally.
Nigel:
We’ve been around for about 20 odd years and we’ve sold networks to most of the major telecommunications players and communications providers in the Latin American region, the North American region where a lot of our customer base still exists in Europe, in the Middle East, North Africa, and also in the Asia-Pac region. Our primary product is a product called Vector Star, which is designed and built around high availability and a reliable, licensed fixed wireless access solution product. But we also have a leading product in the form of a network planning tool and also network management system platform that our customers tell us is really very valuable to them in trying to one: plan the networks for them in this space, but two: also been a really useful tool for the network management system to integrate and optimize with their existing networks. And I’m proud to say that the company has really leveraged itself enormously in recent times and changed and adapted to the ever-changing marketplace to try and make the best use of this licensed millimeter wave spectrum space.
Craig:
Well, and to say that it is an ever-changing market is, is an understatement is as you well are aware and so excited and Lance, you and I have really been looking forward to this conversation for quite a while. And quite honestly, from my perspective, part of the intrigue is the fact that you and Nigel do have a history of working together in the telecommunications industry in the past. Give us a brief look at that if you will.
Lance:
Nigel and I, it was a rainy March day in 1995 in Manchester at 8:00 in the morning we first met we worked in Orange together for a long time doing pretty similar roles at times, actually, although I did leave a lot, not only of you, but we have caught up a few times since on various things. Anyway, it’s good to talk to you again.
Lance:
Nigel look today, we’re talking about how fixed wireless networks help solve the challenge of broadband’s rule. Help some out there and tell us about what the problem is first of all.
Nigel:
I think it starts with the customer experience right at the touchpoints in enterprises, in the consumer space. For me, there’s an ever-increasing demand for higher quality, more reliable levels of service, but more importantly, increasing levels of capacity at touch points like the home, the enterprise business park, all of those types of locations. It’s happening everywhere. And the pandemic has really exacerbated that very recently in my view and really increased the level of pressure on those key points. But particularly when you’re talking about the non-urban areas, suburban areas of a place at a location and particularly around the rural locations, although we’d all love to see fiber in every single location, whether it’s urban, suburban, or rural. The cost of meeting that challenge is really quite significant. And all of us who’ve been in the industry, whether it’s been on the fixed side or the mobile side, all understand that the cost of that last mile is really quite a challenge.
Nigel:
And if you’re talking about fiber everywhere, we all know that it’s not just about the cost, but it’s also about the disruption that can be placed in trying to dig up roads. They got pavements and sidewalks and the deployment time. I, for one, for example, of just been given a voucher, for example, in the UK, I live in a rural community and that voucher has been running now for about 18 months and I’ve still not had fiber to my premise. So it just takes time, but put simply for me, the big issue about where the value of that fixed wireless access brings is that it brings some improvements in what I call the economics challenging. And that’s for one, the bigger challenge I think to deal with, which is how to wireless internet service providers and how to telcos make sure that they’re constantly making that solution efficient and effective, but doing it in a more cost-effective way. And I think fixed wireless access is now coming good and coming into its own because of that need.
Lance:
So, that all sounds great, but these companies wouldn’t be rolling out fiber to the home if it wasn’t going to make the money and once they can see there’s a place for fixed wireless, there are some limitations with fitness for two other surely like capacity or speed. Tell me how you overcome these.
Nigel:
I think, but let’s also look at what I think is really happening here is fiber clearly is the preferred choice. And I think we’d all want to have that happen, but it’s also a little bit of what I call the “horses for courses” in English. And the famous thing for me is you have to choose the right horse for the right opportunity. And what’s also important around that subject is, for example, you wouldn’t put Usain Bolt in a marathon. And so there are particular needs and demands in that last mile space that are important to remember. Typically, if you’re trying to put a last-mile solution around the fiber, you could be talking anything of up to $2,000 a pop just to get that into someone’s home. That’s an enormous expense, but fixed wireless access solutions can be anything around the sort of the thousand-dollar mark. So it’s a big change.
Nigel:
And secondly, making sure that you can with now the technology that’s coming along with fixed wireless access network solutions, you’ve also got the benefit that they can deliver in the millimeter-wave area, high degrees of capacity that really, really do compete and can offer a better level of quality of service in some respects to some of the existing solutions out there.
Lance:
What sort of differences are we getting talking about the capacity of fixed wireless access versus fiber? What would you say competes? I mean, how close is it?
Nigel:
Well, you get a range of things and I think it all comes down to something I want to just pick up now in the next sort of stage, which is to talk about the different types of solutions that you have. So one is an unlicensed spectrum, for example, where frequencies that you might want to take on board in that space. You’ve also got the comparison of the fiber itself with that. And then you’ve got what I call a licensed spectrum. And all of the different frequencies that you can use these days will give different degrees of service, quality, and capacity. And, and I think that it won’t be a case that there’s just a fixed wireless access solution to a rural community. It won’t be that it’s just a fiber solution to the rural community. It’ll be the blend that gets the best answer for the telco and for the wireless internet service provider. And ultimately the consumer.
Craig:
You’re listening to The Broadband Bunch, sponsored by Utopia Fiber, by DX Tel, and by ETI Software Solutions. Our guests today: Nigel Hall, the chief officer of Cambridge Broadband Networks Group, and Nigel, you made mention just a moment ago about the blended solution that that is required. And I think that is so key when you talk about connecting the unconnected broadband for all because you’re dealing with typography that’s a challenge in areas that are very sparsely populated in some cases, but I’m curious about finding that happy medium. What area of the spectrum ban is best for providing broadband connectivity?
Nigel:
If you look at the typical range of spectrum in the fixed wireless access space, you have what you would call cellular bands, wifi bands, which are at the low end, they’re called traditionally sub-sects effectively. What you’ve then got is a middle range, which is the millimeter wave space, which is typically anything from 26, 28 gigahertz up to 31 and, and a little bit beyond that in some cases. And then you’ve got into what you call the 60 gig range of bands, and that’s the sort of overall spectrum position. So let’s just look at the unlicensed spectrum, which in my opinion is getting increasingly overused. The solutions to those frequencies are clearly very low cost. That’s why people use them, but they do lack a lot in the features and the performance and the reliability side and capacity given the nature of simple physics, the frequencies that you use and capacity can become a major issue.
Nigel:
And also you’ve got the challenge of interference. So operators and wireless internet service providers are really pushing hard to try to find ways to make use of that range. And if you then take a look against fiber, as I mentioned earlier, fibers got time challenges, complexity to run and provide that service plus the cost element. So overall like unlicensed spectrum is a really neat, interesting balance, but the key area, I think, where the opportunity really lies now in the marketplace and for the consumers and customers and enterprises are around the licensed radio space and that’s the millimeter wave bands. And in that case, it’s not just the opportunity that’s created by the high degrees of capacity that can be created through those solutions. But it’s also the cost of them. And equipment can be a little bit more expensive in that place to deliver that service. But operators are increasingly willing to start to look at it now as a blended solution to the existing ones that they’re already using.
Nigel:
And particularly when it comes to the comparison between a wireless internet service provider, wanting to deliver this type of service, but doesn’t have all the infrastructure of a large major telecommunications player, where there are core networks needed to make those things work. That’s an expensive solution. And to deliver that type of entity capacity, right in the rural areas, you can imagine that the numbers get pretty challenging to make that happen.
Craig:
No doubt. And Lance, I’d be curious too, to explore the role of 5G in this conversation.
Lance:
We hear lots about 5G. In fact, we end nothing bad about 5G. And there are people pushing 5G usage. What’s the problem with 5G?
Nigel:
Well, I don’t think there’s a problem with it. I think it’s back to definitions, but if you think of 5G networks are all about delivering the fixed wireless services to customers in some of those rural communities, urban communities that I mentioned earlier, you’ve got this challenge that you’ve got to make some tricky, tricky balancing acts. And as I mentioned earlier, you’ve got these sub-six bands, which is typically where a lot of mobile players will play. You’ve then got the low to medium millimeter wave bands. And then you’ve got the above 60 gigs. And what’s interesting for me in this space is 5G isn’t necessarily, if you’re a mobile player isn’t designed for fixed locations. And if you think about the fact that our households are fixed and our needs for broadband are designed around a fixed location, that’s where the opportunity lies I think, to provide the great services that do exist in the millimeter wave bands.
Nigel:
If you think about that particular space, you’ve got a very decent reasonable range in the 24 to 26, 28, up to 31 gigahertz licensed spectrum range. You’ve got good channel bandwidths. They provide really decent capacity at that touchpoint. And although it may not be well suited to mobile, like I said, you’ve got this situation where a lot of us are in demand, these rural communities and suburban areas where we’re not moving about. And a lot of the broadband today has been subsumed by the needs and the capacity demands of the household and businesses and enterprises that are fixed locations. And they’re not necessarily in demand for the need for mobile. So it’s back to the blended solutions again, if you need a mobile-based solution, then you’re looking at obviously mobile run and core networks that need to be built like the major telcos, but then at the same time, there’s an enormous number of fixed wireless access needs out there, which are all around, making sure that those particular locations around towns and cities, rural demands where their fixed requirement for broadband is really quite high.
Lance:
You’ve given us some information about how, how you choose, and what dictates that choice. Anything else that you want to add to that? Or is it, is that kind of where we are with that now?
Nigel:
No. I think the challenge with things in the sub-six ranges is that the range is great, but the penetration levels are acceptable, but the channel sizes are really small. And so you have to build technology which can become quite expensive. And that’s why it’s very popular for mobile 5G use and MNOs with these large core networks. But if you’re a mobile player or you’re trying to provide a service that isn’t a mobile operator with all that heavy infrastructure, there are really big benefits for this millimeter-wave range. And if you’re up at the 60 gigahertz range, then the range is really quite short and bandwidth’s huge, of course, but penetration levels are difficult when you’re trying to send the signals through the buildings and the capacity is awfully good, but nonetheless, you’re going to need a lot of access sites to provide that high capacity coverage in those large areas.
Nigel:
And even in rural and suburban areas, you still have to have a lot of anchor points. You have to have a lot of fiber points and presence around the backhaul. So again, there’s a lot of economic challenges with even the higher frequencies, even though you get the capacity that you need from that.
Lance:
If you’re a Verizon, and AT&T, or Dish, with lots of existing infrastructure to leverage, you’re okay with FWA service, fixed wireless access service.
Nigel:
Yeah, you are, but I think it’s also fair to say that we shouldn’t underestimate, and this is very true actually of a lot of North America, there’s thousands and thousands of local wireless internet service providers. I think you’ve got something like about over two and a half thousand in the U.S. alone that are looking to provide particularly high capacity solutions to the suburban and rural areas of North America. And whilst a lot of the major telcos like Verizon, AT&T, Dish, and to name just a few are all looking to do that, they’re providing fundamentally what I would call “mobile run solutions”. And as I said earlier, that involves a lot of costs, a lot of investment in the core network infrastructure. And if you’re a local wireless internet service provider, trying to deliver a high-capacity solution, that’s a big cost on your bottom line.
Nigel:
And there are ways and means of still delivering a similar service using millimeter-wave bands and at the same time, being able to provide that service without all of that major level of infrastructure. And actually, I truly believe that eventually, even the bigger telcos will be providing blended solutions to their customers in all sorts of different ways because I think the economics will lend itself to making that work that way.
Craig:
I think that’s, without question something you’re beginning to see become much more accepted, even transitioning much more quickly from a strictly wireless delivery to the blended solutions as well. I’m also curious Nigel about your thoughts on the role of standardization and partnerships. And I know that there is a big dependence on using standards such as from the TM Forum, your thoughts in that regard.
Nigel:
I think it’s just a really interesting one because having spent obviously only a few years in the telecoms industry, I’ve always seen that setting standards and agreeing on standards both globally, internationally, and across boundaries is the key to making the best experiences for customers. So that’s point number one. And point number two is: when you do that, I think everyone wins and it really is about working together to solve the problem of how you deliver broadband for all. But to do that, you have to have partnerships working where people want to collaborate. And I think the companies of the future will be those companies like ourselves, who want to effectively work with people who have a similar objective in mind, which is to deliver broadband for all in whatever ways possible, and not feel too uncomfortable about working with competitors. I call it “coopertition”, where you’re working with competitors to build the right solution.
Nigel:
And, and it’s true. And I’ve lived with that for a long time. And I think the more and more you do that, but you have to have the standard set. You have to have the same interactions between the software and the hardware you have to have people who’ve sat down and figured out what those, how those platforms are going to interoperate. And I think if you can do that and the companies that get involved in operating in that way will be for me, the big winners.
Nigel:
And I think it’s all about partnerships and it’s all about collaboration and it’s finding ways to build the bridges across the different interfaces of the solutions.
Craig:
And without question, the ability to unify the approach on different continents, without question, should speed the process of the end goal of broadband for all. The question, for both of you, gentlemen, is as we begin to wind down our time here today, obviously, there are, and we talked about it earlier, the transitions in the industry that are happening at light speed. And I’m curious about if we ask you to pull out the crystal ball and look a couple of years down the road, where will we have seen the evolution of this industry go? Lance, let’s start with you first, your thoughts in that regard.
Lance:
Well, how far do you want to go down? I think, in the shorter term you’re going to see the increased utilization for me of redistricting spectrum in even more clever ways. I think fiber is great where there’s a huge urban buildup, but you know, we’re going to have to be clever about our use of radio.
Craig:
Interesting. Nigel, your thoughts.
Nigel:
I think that the world will increasingly get to a point where, I mean, we haven’t touched on satellite. There’s a clear opportunity with the satellite space as well in today’s solutions mix. And, and I think particularly North America right now with Elon Musk’s solution coming along and starting to drive opportunity, it comes back to the same thing for me, Greg, which is, I actually see that all of these solutions need to interoperate and work together to get the best out of it for every single consumer out there. But I think as Lance touched on there, radio is still a big part of this, wireless solutions are still a big part of it. And yes, we’d all love fiber to the home eventually. But I do think that that’s an exponential challenge to make it, all-pervasive. I think it will be the blend that we’ll win through and get the best for the customer experience.
Craig:
I think part of it too, gentlemen would be, assuming you both would agree, that the fixed wireless approach though, provides the more agile, much more quick response to initiating service in challenging areas where there is no connectivity. Am I correct in that regard? Nigel?
Nigel:
Yeah, I think that’s true. I think you have a lot more flexibility, but as I said earlier, radio solutions have their challenges, but the technology is advancing at such a pace now that even some of the things that a few years ago would have been challenging in the radio space and now proving to not challenge any longer. And when you add in the economics around delivering those agile solutions as you call it, I do really think that there’s a much bigger part to play for that radio millimeter-wave set of solutions in the marketplace, as well as seeing new incumbent operators be challenged, but also seeing new operators like the satellite companies coming into play too.
Craig:
Without question.
Lance:
We could both maybe showed some unconscious biases because I think we both studied a lot as radio design engineers.
Craig:
I would expect nothing less, nothing less. Last question, Nigel, we sort of referring to this as our “back to the future” question. If you could hop in the DeLorean and go back in time, whisper something in your ear, any point in your career with regards to telecommunications that would have sped up the success or change the course that you took, what would that be?
Nigel:
That’s a really great question, Craig, you know what, let me just pause a little bit on that. I think some of it is again, back to, getting countries and standards working more closely together. I think there were times when different regions of the world went down different paths on the standardization of the telecommunications industry. I remember that North America wasn’t a very GSMA sort of focus type of set of platforms.
Lance:
For years.
Nigel:
Yeah. But actually that, that gave some advantages to the North American market. And I think for me if you could want to if you want to go back in time and say, what would you fast track? I would fast-track that collaboration between different territories in the world, different countries in the world, and the standards that were set by the different organizations involved in producing solutions.
Craig:
Excellent. Excellent. Oh, it’s been a great conversation. And guys, I would love to be able to connect again for another opportunity to explore in much greater depth. There are so many avenues that we can touch on, but this gives us a wonderful starting point in the conversation. And Nigel greatly appreciates your time and sharing your thoughts and being able to visit with me and with Lance. It’s been a lot of fun.
Nigel:
Craig, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. It’s been great. Thank you.
