The following transcript has been edited for length and readability. Listen to the entire discussion here on The Broadband Bunch. The Broadband Bunch is sponsored by ETI Software.
Joe Coldebella:
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Broadband Bunch. I’m Joe Coldebella. Joining me today is the Director of the Connect Maine Authority, Peggy Schaffer. Peggy, welcome to Broadband Bunch.
Peggy Schaffer:
Thanks for having me.
Joe Coldebella:
Hey, I’m so excited to have this conversation. But before we dive into everything that Maine is doing to bring connectivity, it would be great if you could just give us a little background about yourself and how you entered your role with Connect Maine.
Peggy Schaffer:
I’m the director of the Connect Maine Authority. I have been in this job since April 1st, 2019. Before that, I was the co-chair of the Statewide Maine Broadband Coalition, which is a coalition of consumers and providers and other interest groups whose mission is to bring broadband to everybody in the state and so, I did that for about five years. And then, when this job opened up, the current director at the time got moved to the commissioner of the department. I came onto this role.
Joe Coldebella:
That’s awesome. You basically have had your feet in the world of broadband for quite some time. If you could … Could you share with us some of the historical backgrounds of Connect Maine?
Peggy Schaffer:
Connect Maine was started in 2007. It was a legislative study commission that created the authority. We are, what’s called in Maine, a quasi-governmental authority or public instrumentality, which means that we are not part of state government. Our money sits outside of state government, and we have a little more flexibility in how we operate than you do traditionally within a state agency. We are funded with a small fee. That has been about a million dollars a year. It’s mostly on a landline, so it’s been a bit of a declining revenue source and in the last couple of years, the legislature has added an additional fee, which includes cell phones. They just did that last year. Now, we think our revenue ongoing revenue is about three million dollars a year, but we’ve been operating on about a million dollars a year since 2007.
Joe Coldebella:
Wow. I just would love if you could touch on the importance of having a broadband office, like what you guys have in Maine?
Peggy Schaffer:
Well, I think that the pandemic has really done a lot for broadband. It’s been sort of the silver lining. The result of us having an office in place is that we had someplace that was up and running, had processes in place, and had relationships with communities and providers. The result is I think that we’re able to move a little faster than other states that might just be getting up and going and so, for Maine, having a state agency or part of a state agency or an instrumentality of the state that is focused on broadband … It gives us a way to really focus our efforts. It also gives a moniker, “The state government cares about this. We care about making sure people get connected and we care about digital inclusion. We care about digital equity.” That’s a really important message.
Joe Coldebella:
No, I couldn’t agree more. When I was just doing the research for you guys, I noticed how important digital inclusion is for you and digital equity. Could you talk about that? Because I think that a lot of … the Maine people if you’re in a high population area, the market takes care of itself. But it seems like it’s the fringes where you need an advocate, which is what you guys are. Correct?
Peggy Schaffer:
I think that there are two pieces to that. Maine’s a very rural state. We’re among the most rural in the country. We’re among the oldest states in the country. And so, that presents a lot of demographic challenges. We also have a whole variety of … We’re not a very rich state. That poverty extends whether you’re in our urban centers, Portland, or whether you’re out in the very rural parts of the state. And so, for us, connectivity is a multiple leg stool. It’s not only having the wire running by your house, which you might have in Portland. But it is also whether you can afford that service. Whether you have a device and whether you know how to use it. And so, without all those pieces, broadband doesn’t do much for you.
Peggy Schaffer:
If you have a wire running by your house and you can’t afford it, it really doesn’t help. If you can afford it, but don’t have a device? That also doesn’t help. And if you don’t know how to use it and how to use it safely, then it also doesn’t help. Broadband really is … It’s those things combined that make it an economic engine and an economic equalizer.
Joe Coldebella:
You know what? I think that’s just an awesome point. Because I think what happens is that we’re all transfixed on these huge numbers in terms of bringing infrastructure. But then, at the end of the day, it’s about education. It’s about bringing people the access that, unfortunately, we still need to do.
Peggy Schaffer:
Broadband is about use. It’s not about technology. It’s about using that should be the driving lens that we look at it through. I do not infrequently say, “If we connect everybody and all you do is watch Netflix, we haven’t done our job.” I will say.
Joe Coldebella:
I like that.
Peggy Schaffer:
Entertainment is a very important piece. Two pieces. It drives us to create, and B, it’s an important piece of our lives, but there are lots of other things that broadband can do for us. We probably don’t even know what half of them are yet because they haven’t been invented. But you can’t do anything unless you have those components. You can’t do anything unless you’re connected unless you have a device and you know how to use it safely.
Joe Coldebella:
Well, I think you’re so right. We’re at the point right now where I think that people think the internet is at a high speed. But we’re just in the first or second inning. Data is going to be, as they say, “Data is the next oil.” I think that we are just getting started. That leads me to my next point, and that’s in terms of speed. In terms of some of the great things that you guys are doing. Everyone talks about gigabit. That’s great and everything.
Joe Coldebella:
The 15/3 is currently what it is for the Federal Government. That’s just not going to cut it in the real world. What are some of the things that you guys are doing in Maine to up the game in terms of speed?
Peggy Schaffer:
We’ve done a couple of things. A while ago, probably four or five years ago, we knew that we wanted to begin to push providers towards fiber. Because we knew that fiber really is the future-proof piece of this. And so, we wanted to build out the fiber as far as we could. And so, we set a minimum build standard of 10/10. Technologies changed, and use has changed. And so, last spring, we set a building standard. In other words, what we’ll pay for. We’ll pay for a network that delivers 100/100. It doesn’t mean that you can’t provide a service less than that, but it has to be capable of at least doing that.
Peggy Schaffer:
But here’s the thing about all this. We’re not ahead of the industry in Maine. They have been building fiber to the home for about five or more years. And so, everybody is like, “Oh my god. You’re way out of line.” We are not out of line with what’s getting built in Maine and what our providers want to build in Maine. It seems like we’re on the cutting edge. But if we’re on the cutting edge, it’s because our providers are also on that edge. The communities are too. Where we came to that was … We didn’t come to it based on technology. We came to it based on use.
Peggy Schaffer:
I think when people talk about, “Technology neutral,” you have to have a certain speed to be technology-neutral. We’re flipping that. You need to flip that conversation. Technology neutral isn’t about the technology. It’s about the use. You have to make sure that the speeds and whatnot that you set for your standards do meet the requirements that people are going to use it for. To us, the big piece of that is the up speed. Because the down speed is consumerism. It’s how the world talks to us. Up speed is how we talk to the world. That is a really important piece and it also drives technology. But if we look at broadband through the way people use it and the way they’re going to use it … That is really how you should set your standards. Not based on who can do what, but on the people’s use of that technology.
Joe Coldebella:
I love that point. And I love the fact that also you guys are embracing fiber. Obviously, it’s one of those things where it’s to future-proof it. To make it something that’s going to last 40 years, which is like the evolution where we had the phone and the copper wiring, which lasted 40 to 75 years. Now, we’re in the next iteration, where it’s fiber. With that, it seems that you guys with the NTIA just made a recent announcement. Could you talk about that exciting news?
Peggy Schaffer:
Last year, NTIA came out with what they’re calling a Broadband Infrastructure Program. They had 270, 280 million dollars to help states and other communities build up broadband. Now, the important piece about that program. One of the important pieces was that it had to be the state or a political subdivision of the state that led the application. It’s the first one that said, “Providers are not going to lead this application. We want either a state government, a county government, or a town government to lead this application.” And so, we put in an application for seven different project areas with three different providers in three communities that are going to be municipally owned. It was a long, arduous process, as most federal processes are.
Joe Coldebella:
Absolutely.
Peggy Schaffer:
But we were successful. We were one of 13 grants that it was awarded. It’s roughly a $28 million grant. The Feds think we’re going to connect about 11,000 people. Our number is more like 15,000, but these communities have been engaged in the planning process for a long time. Many of these communities have. They are so excited to get this grant. They are so excited that they’re going to get fiber. It’s fun, actually. To be able to go out to a community and say, “Yes. All of you. You’re all going to get fiber.”
Joe Coldebella:
Right. No, that’s great. And then, if we could hone in on one subject there. You said that it’s going to be led by the political subdivision of the state. Would it be the communities that are leading this as opposed to private enterprise?
Peggy Schaffer:
The state is the grantee. We’re the ones that signed the grant agreement. We have, what in the grant was called, “Co-applicants.” The co-applicants will also be the sub-recipients. Those are the private providers. Three of those projects will be community-owned.
Joe Coldebella:
Okay. That’s great. I think that’s the great thing about it as well, is that there’s more than one way to solve the problem. I think that’s one of the crazy things about this industry, is that there’s no single solution that’s turn-key. Something that works in Maine might not work in Wisconsin or Arizona, just because of the straight logistics of it. It must be exciting as well as a challenge for you guys?
Peggy Schaffer:
It is. There’s been a lot. Broadband has been coming for a while. There’s been a lot of not investment, for a whole variety of reasons, in rural areas. Now that this federal money’s flowing and everybody’s crowing about it, we get calls every single day saying, “Are you going to connect me today?” The important part about all of this is it took a long time to get here. It’s going to take a while to get it out. People need to be patient. It’s coming, but people need to be patient and people need to get engaged in their community. To make sure what gets built in their community is what they want and what they need. Every state’s a little different. In terms of its political, its geographic. We just got off of a call with Alaska. Talk about geographic challenges. Oh my god.
Joe Coldebella:
Wow.
Peggy Schaffer:
But the structure of your State Office, if it’s focused on the mission of what you need to do, which is making sure people in your state have equal access that’s affordable to this unique communications infrastructure, that is going to be the basis of the economy for this century and next. If you focus on that, and the rest of it flows from there, you can be successful.
Joe Coldebella:
Wow. There’s a lot to unpack there. We’ve got all these big dollar figures. And then, I think the general public thinks that all it is flipping a switch. It’s a full 180 from that. You’ve been part of the office since 2015. Correct? One of the things that I read, in terms of doing my research for you, is that when the money wasn’t there, one of the things that you guys really focused on was planning. I was wondering if you could give a snapshot? In terms of why it’s important to plan for these communities that will be getting money, it’s not one of those things where it’s going to come right away.
Peggy Schaffer:
The planning has a lot of pieces to it. One piece is, when you start doing community planning, you can get more accurate data from the community about what service is there and is not there. Because we know the FCC maps are pretty small. And so, it’s important to get better data. Broadband is a street-by-street battle. And so, it’s important to understand where those streets are. The other piece is, that it’s very important for a community to understand the importance of this in terms of universal service. Everyone in town. Not just the downtown area. Not just the streets that are 20 houses per mile and more. But everyone in town has access to this service. And the affordability piece. Those are key pieces for community planning. The other key piece for community planning, quite frankly, is to demonstrate to a provider that there’s going to enough take rate for them to both operate the network and make money on the network. When you bring the take rate up from 30% to 60%, that’s an eye-opening thing for most of these networks. That’s an eye-opening thing for a provider to say, “Wait. There’s an opportunity there that I can capitalize on.”
Peggy Schaffer:
The final piece is if a community wants to own this network … If they are deciding who is the best steward for this critical economic development piece for the next 50 years, and decide that the best steward is them … Then, you really have to have some deep community conversations about what that means for financing, what that means for structure, and how you want to do that. And so, those are all really critical conversations that community planning starts and builds from. The other thing that’s going to happen. Everybody sees all this money and thinks, “It’s going to rain down. Everybody’s fine.” This is not going to be enough money to do everything. It’s not. We’re going to have to figure out capital stacks. Whether it’s funding from the community. Whether it’s a revenue stream from the network that you’re building. Provider money, federal money, bank money. All of those things. Investor money. How we pull that together and make it work will vary community by community. But the communities that are most engaged in this conversation and have really thought about it and are driving that conversation are the communities who are going to be most successful.
Joe Coldebella:
That’s a great point. I think that you touched on it earlier. But the silver lining, at least for the broadband industry, was the pandemic. It put a laser on, in terms of how inadequate broadband is across the country. Right now, remote work is everything. Telehealth. There are so many things that the world is going digital. It’s a process. To your point, when communities embrace it, I think that the opportunity for them to future-proof themselves to make the community stronger. There’s only one upside.
Peggy Schaffer:
These community conversations are … Broadband won’t stop with broadband. These partnerships that communities are developing with providers, with neighboring communities, are what’s going to build their economic strategy going forward. It’s going to start with broadband. But the doors that broadband opens around business support, around a whole variety of things that you never thought of when you work from home, if you have a high-quality connection, you can live in the middle of nowhere or almost the middle of nowhere and be able to work on finance in New York City. You never have to get out of your slippers. And so, that kind of opportunity. In Maine, as a result of the pandemic … This has an upside and downside. There are a lot of people who’ve decided they want to not live in the city anymore.
Peggy Schaffer:
We actually have seen a population decline for decades. We’ve seen a beginning of an uptick in that. It’s young families moving back here. It’s people moving back because they came from here originally. They want to be near their parents. To some extent, the pandemic has forced decisions. People have always wanted to move back to Maine. But suddenly now, it’s time. Not just Maine. Move back to other areas. Broadband enables all of that activity.
Joe Coldebella:
I was on a call yesterday, and I heard the number 30 million people are going to be working from home people. To your point, you can work anywhere now. Because if you have a good connection, you can do anything. That’s great in the sense that … Exactly. Those communities have always had a losing population. You don’t have a reason why to stay, because the work isn’t there. But it’s one of those things where … Now, with connectivity and the acceptance of working from home, it makes that possible. Is Maine really excited? Are you guys perhaps pursuing that? In terms of creating programs to attract folks from, say, New York City or some of the larger metro areas?
Peggy Schaffer:
We haven’t really had to do that. They’ve been coming on their own. This creates another problem. A housing crisis. Broadband allows you to live where you want and still work. Where you used to have to work where you lived. You don’t have to do that anymore. That’s really important. The guy up the street from me, he’s an international banker. He works with people across the globe on banking and he lives in tiny, little Vassalboro on Hussey Hill Road. And so, that is the thing it enables to happen. I got to say, I also work from home. My dog loves it. The advantages of being able to work from home and what allows you to think differently about your life are important. Broadband enables all of that. Better connectivity is going to enable hopefully everyone who has a type of job where they can work from home to do that.
Joe Coldebella:
It’s one of those things where I know that there’s a little pushback now. In terms of getting people back in the office. And I think what it’s going to be is it’s going to be an evolution. Where it’s going to give people the opportunity, if they need to go into the office a few days a week, or if they need to work from home … As long as they have got a good connection, they can do it. As long as they get their work done. That’s really exciting as well. Because to your point, at the end of the day … Hopefully, people are looking at this. It’s all about the quality of life.
Peggy Schaffer:
No, it is. For me, the other piece that it’s about is … I think broadband can be if it’s done correctly, the great equalizer in this society. If everybody has access to this really powerful resource and can afford it, and has a device and knows how to use it, and there’s software out there that they can use that moves them forward … It can raise a lot of boats. It really can raise a lot of boats. A number of years ago, Maine was one of the first people that put laptops in school for seventh and eighth-graders. My sister is a seventh and eighth-grade teacher. When she was there for the first year of that, she said, “It was stunning.” Because you had kids from very wealthy homes suddenly the kids from poor homes had the same resources. Had the same access to the resources that the wealthy kids did. It changed the dynamic in the classroom. And it changed the learning for all the kids. That’s what broadband could do for us.
Joe Coldebella:
No, that’s such a great point. It is truly the great equalizer. I was a library nerd when I was a kid. I would love to walk up and down the stacks because we would go to the local library. But nowadays, it’s like the library is in everyone’s house. They can find out anything. You’re only captured by your imagination in terms of what you can do. That’s the great thing about the internet and the things that are possible.
Peggy Schaffer:
Our libraries in Maine are part of our Maine School and Library Network … Most of them have a gig network. Having access to a high-speed network for our libraries has changed what they do. They no longer just loan books. They now do online stories. They do computer classes for people. They help people write resumes. They help people apply for jobs. It has drastically changed the mission of those organizations. And it can do that for everybody else too. It can change the mission and the purpose you do
Joe Coldebella:
That’s absolutely fantastic. One of the things that we love to do on The Broadband Bunch is ask for suggestions. If you could offer some type of advice for communities or states that maybe aren’t doing some of the things that Maine is doing. Are there any key points that you would love to share with our listeners?
Peggy Schaffer:
To me, the community planning piece … It’s a lot of work, but it’s a huge piece. The other piece I think that Maine has done really well is the Maine Broadband Coalition. We have a solid group of people who are committed to working together to achieve this goal across the state. We, as a two-person office, could never do this work by ourselves. It’s the team we have built-in Maine, this village that we have built-in Maine to grow broadband, that has been vitally important. Not just to support the communities as they plan, but also to advocate for appropriate policies at the state level. Having the voices of consumers in that organization has been a game-changer in Maine, and it is one of the reasons that Maine, for our community planning piece, is so far ahead of other states. It is a small state. But this group of people that are committed to making sure broadband happens and that we work together on it is really a phenomenal resource and a phenomenal source.
Joe Coldebella:
No, that’s a great point. Because I think what happens is that when you’re working with community leaders that have so many things on their plate … Obviously, broadband is important, but there are so many other things that are just as important. But when you have your community group together, it’s like, “That’s your rally point.” I think that’s a fantastic thing. I would love it, for those folks that are listening, as a great takeaway.
Peggy Schaffer:
Also, one of the things we started to do this year is to … We’re called Community Boosters. It’s an idea we stole from Land O’Lakes. Where we are actually paying stipends for volunteers to work with the community groups in their area. We pay engineers all the time to do stuff. Why shouldn’t we support volunteers as they do this really important work on the front end?
Joe Coldebella:
That’s an awesome takeaway. Just one of those things for The Broadband Bunch. When we are closing up the interview, we like to ask two questions. The first question is our Back to the Future question. And so, Peggy, if I were to drop the keys to the DeLorean in your hand and allow you to go back five, seven years. If you had the chance to either whisper into your ear or someone else, what would you tell yourself or someone close to the Connect Maine Office? In terms of making the process a little bit easier?
Peggy Schaffer:
The thing I would say is, “Focus on the community planning piece. Really, put these pieces in place. Figure out the support system for those communities early because they’re going to need it.” The other thing is really … If I had the DeLorean to go back, I would go back to the FCC and say, “Set a reasonable speed.” This 25/3 that they’ve defined has hammered us. Hemmed us into where we can’t really create a solution. Because the industry is saying, “25/3 is the solution.” It is not. If they had made that into a symmetrical speed and had kept advancing it. If they had looked out, we would be in such a different place right now. Such a different place.
Joe Coldebella:
I know. It’s one of those things with me. It’s one of those things where I wish the FCC would set a floor. Because I think that sky’s the limit. A gig. 100/100. 10 gig. That’s all going to happen just through market forces. But it’s one of those things where, if the speeds are woefully low, that’s just a recipe for disaster.
Peggy Schaffer:
Yes. We have a disaster. It’s what we have. I don’t know. 82 million people are not connected in this state, in this country, after spending billions of dollars already. Which is one of the reasons I think that Congress said, “We’re going to do this differently with this next chunk of money. We’re going to give it to the states, and work with them to figure out how to really bring broadband to those last people.”
Joe Coldebella:
Well, hopefully, we will slowly move the pieces forward. And so, obviously, we asked the Back to the Future question. But I always want to ask the crystal ball question as well. So, if you could look into the future, three to five years. Where do you see Maine and maybe anything else in terms of the internet in general? In terms of speed or …
Peggy Schaffer:
Where I hope Maine is, in three to five years, is that we have a solution for just about everybody. There’s always this question about, “What about the person …” We had somebody ask me, “Well, if somebody canoes down the Allagash, do they have a connection?” And I thought to myself, “Well, no. Don’t you go to the Allagash to be away from everything?” But so that we have a solution for just about everybody. That is affordable and we know how to use it. Here’s the other piece that I really hope, is that digital equity and digital inclusion is as embedded into the conversations as education and healthcare are. So that when people are talking about, “Well, it’d be good if we had this,” they remember. That this whole piece about how we make sure people have access and know how to use the internet and have a device is built into every single program. So if you are on unemployment, somebody’s asking you, “Do you have a connection? Do you know how to use the computer? Do you know how to do a job search?” Digital skills building is built into everything that we do.
Joe Coldebella:
No, that’s a phenomenal point. As we wrap up, I was just going to ask you. Are there any websites that are that you use? Or that you would share for folks to look at in terms of how things happen in Maine?
Peggy Schaffer:
Well, for us, with the Maine Broadband Coalition, which is a very catchy handle, mainebroadbandcoalition.org is that website. It’s very useful. They’ve got some really interesting stuff up there. Now, we have a bunch of young people working on it, which is why it’s now innovative. Our website is ConnectME at maine.gov. And then, the Maine Connectivity Authority, which is the new authority that’s coming on to take place. That’s maineconnectivity.org. Those are where you go to look for what’s happening in Maine. Nationally, there’s some great … The Benton Foundation. The Blandin Foundation. The Merit Organization in Northern Michigan. Community Nets, which is part of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. There are some very good resources out there. Next Century Cities. All of them have really good kits about how to do this community planning piece. They’re really great sources of information.
Joe Coldebella:
Just one last thing. Is there anything you’d like to add in terms of things that you thought you would like to share?
Peggy Schaffer:
I love the attention that states are getting now because we’ve been doing the hard work for several years. States have some smart people working for us. I think the important thing that states bring to the table is this idea of partnerships. We want to be the link between communities and providers to get this work done. We’re really focused on trying to make sure that everybody gets a high-quality connection they can afford. This new federal money is really going to help us all do that work, but we have to do it in partnership.
Joe Coldebella:
Absolutely. That’s a fantastic point. Great place to end it. What I will say is, that I’d love to issue a return visit somewhere down the line, where we could bring you back and you could share the progress that Maine is making. Because I think it’s a phenomenal story.
Peggy Schaffer:
I hope so. We’re pretty excited. We went out with NTIA out to an island off the coast. Six miles off Stonington. Stonington sticks out there, so it’s six miles out into the ocean. It’s a tiny island. It’s only 130 people. 30 people year-round. One road that goes around the island. The middle of the island is a National Park. It’s a really tiny community. To be able to bring high-quality service to those people out there, so they don’t have to get on a ferry at seven o’clock in the morning to see the doctor.
Peggy Schaffer:
That their kids can have the same access to education. They can have jobs and they can order stuff on Amazon. It was really fun. It was really fun. Plus, it was a gorgeous day, which we don’t usually get anymore.
Joe Coldebella:
You know what? Let’s end it there on such a great high note. That’s going to wrap up this episode of The Broadband Bunch. Thanks for listening, everyone. Until the next time, we’ll see you later.
